Eastern Indigo Breeder

[heart4herps]

I contacted Jeff Jones of http://www.drymarchonsnakes.com about purchasing an Eastern Indigo. I applied for the Federal transport permit, got tons of information and sent him a $500 deposit. When it came time to send the final payment I was informed my snake had escaped his enclosure and he asked me if I wanted a refund or just have him keep the $500 as a deposit on the next years hatching. As it was right before Christmas and money is always tight in this household, I requested a refund. It was never sent and he isn't answering my emails. I managed to track down a phone number but it's no good.

Do NOT do business with this person!!! I will probably never see my money again and I don't want anyone else to go through this.

[heart4herps]

If anyone knows of a way to force him to pay me back, or has experience with something like this, I'd love to hear from you!

[prism_wolf]

Have you filed a police report? This is the first step in anything relate to theft - which is what he's done. It doesn't matter if he's in another state. You still file in your jurisdiction. Once filing the report the police dept. can aim you in the direction you need to go next. Probably an attorney - but if it comes to that and he loses - he will also have to pay your attorney fees. If you sent the deposit through PayPal you may also have a buyers complaint form. If he has a business license you can go through the Better Bus. Bureau.

I sure wish you luck! There are ways to get it back - it just takes a little foot-work. He still shows a male for sale. Was this what you were after?

[Quig]

I think I'd go that route myself. I don't know how many of y'all can let 500 buck go, but I certainly can't.

Quig

[heart4herps]

Thank you! I received an email with an excellent suggestion that I'm following up on. If I don't hear from him now, I'll do the next thing which is go to the police.

[prism_wolf]

So what was the suggestion!? Inquiring minds want to know!

[heart4herps]

Let's just say that if he values his reputation as a breeder/seller, he needs to deal with this issue ASAP. I should really demand $600 because the Federal permit cost an additional $100. So here I sit with a permit that's going to expire in about 5 months and no snake or money!

And that probably IS 'my' snake that he's listing as available...

[MrsWTownsend]

So what was the suggestion!? Inquiring minds want to know!


??? Inquiring minds still want to know, unless it's top secret information, or it will ruin your revenge by posting it here (or something).

I'm sorry about your horrible experience with this guy. I'll e-mail him and tell him I'd be interested in that Eastern if he hadn't already sheistered someone else out of their hard earned money for it...

[heart4herps]

Nothing top secret...just posting my experience on reptile forums.

[snake_eyes]

Let us all know how it turns out. That's a great way to ruin a business..........

[snakewrangler]

Its total BS that he won't answer an email from you. Sounds like a real weasel. I emailed him just to see what would happen (yesterday) and got this back at 2 pm today:

"I have two 2006 females and two 2007 males I was holding back. I had planned to keep a third pair but just let a pair go for 750.00 about 3-4 months ago. I should have more 2008 in the summer. 100.00 deposit is all I ask on a pair and if not provided the refund will be returned. They are 300.00 each or 600.00 a pair for 2008.
Just let me know if interested and I will send you my address for deposit.
Jeff"

[netbunny81]

Hmmm ... a weasel indeed ! >:(

[snake_eyes]

What a scam he's got going on. :toptap:

[heart4herps]

Its total BS that he won't answer an email from you. Sounds like a real weasel. I emailed him just to see what would happen (yesterday) and got this back at 2 pm today:

"I have two 2006 females and two 2007 males I was holding back. I had planned to keep a third pair but just let a pair go for 750.00 about 3-4 months ago. I should have more 2008 in the summer. 100.00 deposit is all I ask on a pair and if not provided the refund will be returned. They are 300.00 each or 600.00 a pair for 2008.
Just let me know if interested and I will send you my address for deposit.
Jeff"




This is a family forum so I can't cuss, so.....@#$%^&*(#%$@#^$&$%#!!!!!!!

Maybe you can ask him where MY deposit is???!!!

Weasel indeed!

[dana51581]

Its total BS that he won't answer an email from you. Sounds like a real weasel. I emailed him just to see what would happen (yesterday) and got this back at 2 pm today:

"I have two 2006 females and two 2007 males I was holding back. I had planned to keep a third pair but just let a pair go for 750.00 about 3-4 months ago. I should have more 2008 in the summer. 100.00 deposit is all I ask on a pair and if not provided the refund will be returned. They are 300.00 each or 600.00 a pair for 2008.
Just let me know if interested and I will send you my address for deposit.
Jeff"

Wow! I've heard of SO many differnet stories about so many different vendors in this hobby being complete con artists - I'm just adding him to the list... 100 bucks for something doesn't have yet?

And does he realize that $600 isn't a deal? >:(

[snake_eyes]

Well what if all of us were to e-mail him about it? I don't know about you guys but if a whole bunch of people started e-mailing me about not paying someone I'd make sure that they got their money..........

[heart4herps]

It's a deal to me - He told me it was $1,500 a pair or $750/male $850/female!!! I was originally asking for a pair but couldn't raise enough money so he said he would use the $500 for a deposit on a male. Now several months later he has my $500 and I've got zip!!! This just gets better and better!

[heart4herps]

Actually I was hoping maybe Snakewrangler would email him back and say he was considering getting a snake until he read a bad review... :devil:

No need to tell him where you saw the bad review...that'll really make him sweat!

[snakewrangler]

I already emailed him back. I told him I was going to buy some of his snakes, but someone told me about the un-returned deposit, so I'll pass.

We'll see what happens.

[heart4herps]

Awesome - thank you!!!

[Quig]

I already emailed him back. I told him I was going to buy some of his snakes, but someone told me about the un-returned deposit, so I'll pass.

We'll see what happens.


LOL,

Laurie, if he makes the connection you may get some hate mail ;)

[heart4herps]

Oh I have no doubt about that!!!

I want my snake or my money - either will do and I will leave him alone. If I don't hear from him, I will continue to post reviews.

[heart4herps]

By the way I'm not asking anyone to take this on faith. I can PM you the emails, the Federal permit, and the cancelled check. Just let me know!

[Quig]

Not necessary. I hope he comes round and you get what he owes you :thumbsup:

[MrsWTownsend]

By the way I'm not asking anyone to take this on faith. I can PM you the emails, the Federal permit, and the cancelled check. Just let me know!


I'm relatively confident that no one reading about your experience on this thread is going to take the position that you are just saying things to defame this guy! Again, I'm really sorry you've having such a horrible experience and wish I could do SOMETHING to help rectify the situation!

I'm still curious about the advice you got on getting this guy to make good on his word; I sure hope there's a way to keep him from getting away with this!

[MrsWTownsend]

So, being the nosey person that I am, I wrote this guy an inquiry letter today.

This is what I wrote:
Hi. I am a prospective buyer but I have a couple of questions:

I’m inquiring about your stock availability for 2008. When do you anticipate having the actual inventory?

Also, I’m hearing a lot of very negative reviews about whether or not you honor your deposit refund guarantee. What, exactly, is your deposit policy and what, exactly, would fall under the “no deposit refund” category?

Best Regards,

Gina Townsend

His response, unedited, sent this same day:

I give one month after egg hatch to pay in full June /July. I had one person this last year that paid for a pair of indigos then changed to a single male and then took 4 months after hatch to pay and was sending 125.00 payments at that point. I did not refund her deposit, this is a promise to pay when snakes are ready, not to negotiate at a later date. The later checks were returned and never cashed. She was making up the rules as she went.
If you pay as requested, there is never a problem, all my other sales were perfect. If eggs don't hatch then money would be returned. If you can't afford this line then don't make a deposit.
Jeff

[dana51581]

He didn't mention the fact that it wasn't lack of payment - it was that he let the snakes that were purchased escape - well whatever - no matter what he says really happened or what he replies to any of us - I think we can all say that we get that this guy is shiesty and we should avoid dealing with him ;)

[snakewrangler]

He didn't email me back on the 2nd round, but my guess is this guy thinks his **** don't stink because he breeds the indigos and cribos- native snakes that will always fetch a high price, always be in demand, and will always require a Federal permit.

There are a lot of "good guys" out there that deserve our business. This guy seems sketchy and dishonest to me....

[MrsWTownsend]

Well, hopefully his rear end is puckering a little bit (at least) and maybe heart can use some of what this guy has written as his guarantee to aid in the deposit refund. $500+ court cost will fly in small claims court and with written evidence of his guarantee plus written evidence that he lost the snakes and that's why the deal was voided seems like a pretty strong defense.

[heart4herps]

So, being the nosey person that I am, I wrote this guy an inquiry letter today.

This is what I wrote:
Hi. I am a prospective buyer but I have a couple of questions:

I’m inquiring about your stock availability for 2008. When do you anticipate having the actual inventory?

Also, I’m hearing a lot of very negative reviews about whether or not you honor your deposit refund guarantee. What, exactly, is your deposit policy and what, exactly, would fall under the “no deposit refund” category?

Best Regards,

Gina Townsend

His response, unedited, sent this same day:

I give one month after egg hatch to pay in full June /July. I had one person this last year that paid for a pair of indigos then changed to a single male and then took 4 months after hatch to pay and was sending 125.00 payments at that point. I did not refund her deposit, this is a promise to pay when snakes are ready, not to negotiate at a later date. The later checks were returned and never cashed. She was making up the rules as she went.
If you pay as requested, there is never a problem, all my other sales were perfect. If eggs don't hatch then money would be returned. If you can't afford this line then don't make a deposit.
Jeff





He NEVER said any of this to me!!! I asked to make payments and he (supposedly) was fine with it!!!

ETA - He's punishing ME because he lost the snake - what an a$$hole! Excuse my language.

[heart4herps]

I just checked his website and NOWHERE is this deposit/refund policy stated! I just copied every page in case he tries to sneak it in. I'm so furious right now I can't stand it - not only did he steal my money but he's lying through his teeth. He's the one making things up as he goes...!!!!!!

[MrsWTownsend]

Actually, that was why I wrote him and asked him to clarify the terms of the deposit. I looked for something in writing on the site, also. It's pretty disconcerting to find someone doing business who won't put their terms in writing. Kind of hard to argue not giving a refund when you have no specified terms of sale.

I'm no attorney, but it sure seems like a well substantiated argument on your part Heart!

I could be on crack, but I could swear that I read that he's accepting $100 deposits for this summer's stock, too, not $500 like he charged you! Sheister MF.

[rwagoner]

His response, unedited, sent this same day:

I give one month after egg hatch to pay in full June /July. I had one person this last year that paid for a pair of indigos then changed to a single male and then took 4 months after hatch to pay and was sending 125.00 payments at that point. I did not refund her deposit, this is a promise to pay when snakes are ready, not to negotiate at a later date. The later checks were returned and never cashed. She was making up the rules as she went.
If you pay as requested, there is never a problem, all my other sales were perfect. If eggs don't hatch then money would be returned. If you can't afford this line then don't make a deposit.
Jeff



He NEVER said any of this to me!!! I asked to make payments and he (supposedly) was fine with it!!!

ETA - He's punishing ME because he lost the snake - what an a$$hole! Excuse my language.


Wow that is some conflicting information. heart4herps do you have it in writing that he lost the snake? If so you should be able to win and get your deposit back. Otherwise it is your word against his. :(

[heart4herps]

I have emails, checks, and permit. Oh and the 4 month period...3 of those months were spent waiting for the Federal permit and he knows that! He had to give me his breeders information so I could fill out the forms. HE told me it would take up to 90 days to process and that's exactly how long it took. And as far as the last payment...I asked what I still owed and he said "$300, $250 for the snake and $50 for shipping." I asked if I could split the $300 in half over two pay periods ( I get paid every 2 weeks ) and he said "that's fine." If he had a problem with my making payments, he should have said so! I sent the first check and 2 weeks later I sent the second one. It's not like I was sitting around twiddling my thumbs making him to wait for the heck of it! At no time did he say I needed to come up with the full amount immediately. Also he never told me anything about a deposit refund policy. When I didn't hear from him after the second check, I emailed and asked when my snake would be shipped. That's when he wrote and told me the snake had gotten out of the sweater box he kept it in. At that time he gave me three options: 1. Wait to see if the snake showed up again. 2. Get a refund (no mention of a partial refund). 3. Leave the money with him and wait until next season and get one of those snakes. You know the rest. I asked for a refund and he sent back the two $150 checks and nothing else. When I emailed asking for the $500, I never heard back - no explanation, nothing.

This is the last I'm writing about this as it is much too upsetting for me. If anyone has further questions, please PM me. I'm in the process of pulling all the emails, checks, permit, etc. together so I can state a formal case on the boards and with the police. It's taking some time because half of the emails are on an old computer that crashed... >:(

[heart4herps]

enjoyed speaking with you earlier this evening. I just visited your website and I'd like one of the new male hatchlings. What's the best way to get the deposit to you?

Thanks!

Laurie Hyatt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:35 PM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigo


Hi,

Yes,
I planned to list some on Kingsnake this week. You emailed at the right time. I don't plan on them lasting long.

I have 9 eastern Indigo eggs incubating and 8 Texas Indigo this year.
They will hatch June 14 - thru July 14. These will be 750 male and 1000.00 for female or 1650.00 a pair

I also have Texas indigo and yellow and black tail cribos, the South American Indigos for sale.

I currently have a 2006 male eastern indigo --800.00
and a 1999 female for sale she is about 7 ft --2500.00
These could be obtained now, the eggs I will be taking a 250.00 deposit on and either ship when they hatch or once feeding on pinkies, buyers choice. Some people prefer to start there own and others want them feeding on pinkies before taking possession.
Please check out my new sight. It is still under construction but its a start.

www.drymarchonsnakes.com

Thanks,
Jeff Jones
IL
[PERSONAL CONTACT REMOVED]

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: z3zoo@mtco.com
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: indigo


Hello,

I'm looking for an indigo snake. Do you have any for sale?

Thank you,

Laurie Hyatt

From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:34 PM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigos


I totally understand. The 500.00 check arrived today. All is well with the eggs and one male is what I will put on reserve. I figure next day shipping back to you will be some where around 30-40.00 dollars I will get the specifics when they hatch. I will figure only 250.00 plus shipping is due at hatch then. If you decide to pick up the female down the road I will honor the deal of 850.00 plus shipping when you are ready. How does that sound.
Also keep me posted on the paper work from Victoria Davis. I will email you as soon as they hatch. Your funds arrived here first and so you will get the first male. I believe 5 will be placed by end of the week.
I may sell out this year but keep me in mind down the road on a female. I will keep your information on file.
Thanks,
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: 'jeff jones'
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: indigos


Hi Jeff,

Just checking to see if my check arrived and also to ask if it would be a big problem to go back to my original plan of getting the one male only (sorry for changing my mind again!). It's a bit much financially for me. I really do apologize and hope this doesn't cause any issues.

Hope all is going well with the babies to be!

Thanks again for everything,

Laurie

Excellent - thanks so much! I will definitely keep this in mind and maybe try again next year. I really would love to have a breeding pair eventually.

Laurie


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:34 PM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigos


I totally understand. The 500.00 check arrived today. All is well with the eggs and one male is what I will put on reserve. I figure next day shipping back to you will be some where around 30-40.00 dollars I will get the specifics when they hatch. I will figure only 250.00 plus shipping is due at hatch then. If you decide to pick up the female down the road I will honor the deal of 850.00 plus shipping when you are ready. How does that sound.
Also keep me posted on the paper work from Victoria Davis. I will email you as soon as they hatch. Your funds arrived here first and so you will get the first male. I believe 5 will be placed by end of the week.
I may sell out this year but keep me in mind down the road on a female. I will keep your information on file.
Thanks,
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: 'jeff jones'
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 12:03 PM
Subject: indigos


Hi Jeff,

Just checking to see if my check arrived and also to ask if it would be a big problem to go back to my original plan of getting the one male only (sorry for changing my mind again!). It's a bit much financially for me. I really do apologize and hope this doesn't cause any issues.

Hope all is going well with the babies to be!

Thanks again for everything,

Laurie

Great - I'll send the first check out today! I have a copy of the permit in PDF format. Do you know which pages need to be filled out? I only printed out the first one but I'm not sure what else is needed. Also, do I send the form to you or directly to the Department of the Interior, US Fish and Wildlife? I attached the form that was sent to me.

I honestly don't remember where I found you but it might have been kingsnake.com.

Laurie


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 4:46 AM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigo


That would be fine with me.
I will put a pair on hold and await the initial 500.00 retaining fee. If you need any additional information from me for the permit, just let me know. I wanted to ask, how did you get my name/email? Its nice to know what advertisement works the best. Generally it word of mouth with these.
Thanks
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: 'jeff jones'
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:51 PM
Subject: RE: indigo


If it's okay, I'd like to go with male/female pair. Since it's going to take awhile to get the permit that will give me time to get the money to you. Would you mind if I make payments each month? I was told it will take up to 90 days to get the permit so I was thinking of sending $500 per month. Please let me know if this is all right with you.

Thanks!

Laurie


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 10:28 AM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigo


Hi,
you can send 250.00 as deposit on one male 2007 eastern Indigo.
I will email you as soon as they hatch. The other 500.00 will be due once he hatches with shipping cost for next day delivery by Fed Ex or DHL your choice.

My name & Address is:

Jeff Jones
[PERSONAL CONTACT REMOVED]

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: 'jeff jones'
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 12:23 AM
Subject: RE: indigo


I enjoyed speaking with you earlier this evening. I just visited your website and I'd like one of the new male hatchlings. What's the best way to get the deposit to you?

Thanks!

Laurie Hyatt


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:35 PM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigo


Hi,

Yes,
I planned to list some on Kingsnake this week. You emailed at the right time. I don't plan on them lasting long.

I have 9 eastern Indigo eggs incubating and 8 Texas Indigo this year.
They will hatch June 14 - thru July 14. These will be 750 male and 1000.00 for female or 1650.00 a pair

I also have Texas indigo and yellow and black tail cribos, the South American Indigos for sale.

I currently have a 2006 male eastern indigo --800.00
and a 1999 female for sale she is about 7 ft --2500.00
These could be obtained now, the eggs I will be taking a 250.00 deposit on and either ship when they hatch or once feeding on pinkies, buyers choice. Some people prefer to start there own and others want them feeding on pinkies before taking possession.
Please check out my new sight. It is still under construction but its a start.

www.drymarchonsnakes.com

Thanks,
Jeff Jones
IL
[PERSONAL CONTACT REMOVED]

----- Original Message -----
From: laurie
To: z3zoo@mtco.com
Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 3:39 PM
Subject: indigo


Hello,

I'm looking for an indigo snake. Do you have any for sale?

Thank you,

Laurie Hyatt

This is a new application for an Interstate Commerce permit. I understand that the application fee is $100.

A. For Wildlife:
1. Provide the common and scientific names of the species being requested for
coverage in the permit and their status (endangered (E) or threatened (T)).
Status: Threatened.
Common name: Eastern Indigo.
Scientific name: Drymarchon couperi.

2. Identify the activity sought to be authorized for each species.
Purchasing male and female as companions and for breeding purposes.

3. Provide the sex, birth date, birth place, age, number of specimens, and identifying
features (e.g., band number, collar number, scars, tattoo number, etc.).

4. Provide the name, address and telephone number of the seller.
Jeff Jones
[PERSONAL CONTACT REMOVED]

5. State whether the wildlife has been captively bred or removed from the wild.
Captive bred.

6. Provide the expected time needed to complete transaction(s).

7. Provide a complete description with photographs and/or diagrams of the area and
facilities where wildlife will be held in captivity, and description of arrangements
for care during transportation and maintenance.
Each will be kept in a separate 40 gallon tank with locking mesh lids and proper lighting, heating, substrate, hide boxes, and water containers.

8. Describe experience with breeding this or similar species in the past.
I have not bred any reptiles yet.

9. Provide the full names of person(s) who will care for live specimens, including
any experience in raising, caring for, and propagating similar wildlife.
Laurie A. Hyatt: I have been caring for 6 reptiles (3 snakes, 3 lizards) for over 5 years and they are all in excellent health.

10. List mortalities resulting from your activities with these or similar species in the
last 2 years. Provide an explanation of each mortality event and the procedures
employed or modified to eliminate any future mortality events.
No mortalities within the last 2 years.

11. Indicate your willingness to participate in a cooperative breeding or propagation
program or to contribute data to a database or studbook.
I would like to participate in any programs available.

12. Provide a statement from the wildlife breeder that the wildlife was bred at their home/facility. This statement must include the name and address of the breeder,
date of birth or hatch, band number or any other identifying marks or characteristics.
Jeff Jones
[PERSONAL CONTACT REMOVED]

13. Please provide detailed information on how you propose to manage your breeding
stock to uniquely identify all progeny, and to ensure that the genetic diversity and
integrity of your breeding stock are maintained to the maximum extent possible.

Woohoo!!! Congratulations "Dad!"

I'm still waiting on the permit.

Laurie



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 5:01 PM
To: laurie
Subject: Re: indigos


HI,
The first eastern egg opened this AM,so 109 days for the first egg. The rest of this clutch should hatch over the next 3-5 days and then the Texas are next. I would expect within the next 2 weeks
Jeff

Thanks so much for looking into this Jeff - I really appreciate it. So glad to hear about the babies. I can't wait to see mine in person. This is literally a lifelong dream coming true. I've wanted an Indigo since I was around 7-8 and saw one for the first time.

Do you have any pictures yet?

Laurie


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2007 4:10 PM
To: Laurie Hyatt
Subject: Re: indigos


Hi,
I guess there has been a change in command which has slowed things down. Victoria Davis has stepped down and her replacement isn't up to speed. He tells me there is a large stack of applications awaiting approval and he will try to make it a priority. They do have the applications and they should be processing soon.
Sorry for the delay. The snakes on the other hand just took the first meal last weekend and should be ready to feed again Friday. I will have them feeding on pinkies which should also make it easier for you to care for
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: Laurie Hyatt
To: 'jeff jones'
Sent: Saturday, July 28, 2007 9:43 PM
Subject: RE: indigos


The permit still hasn't shown up. Do you have any contact information for the office in your district? I know they got the form - the check cleared my account last month.

How are the babies doing?

Laurie Hyatt

I've got my heart set on that little guy. Next month should be better financially (I don't think there are any more major payments due). Will that be all right? Do you only have the one left? Is he friendly? Are there any pictures?



-----Original Message-----
From: z3zoo@mtco.com [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 2:45 PM
To: laurie
Subject: RE: indigos

I am sorry I don't have any way to accept credit card at this time.

You have your interstate permit in hand, is it dated for only this year?

Would you prefer to leave the deposit for a 2008 hatch. I will have more of these every year from now on. I am here to stay and would have no problem placing this last baby if you let me know before Oct 15 breeder show at Chicago.
Just let me know,
Thanks,
Jeff

> Hi Jeff,
>
> I'm having a terrible time getting the last $300 together for my
> Eastern Indigo. Do you by chance take credit cards?
>
> Laurie Hyatt

Oh no - I'm sorry to hear that and I hope he's okay! I'm really sorry I took so long to pay for the snake and hope I didn't inconvenience you too much. I guess considering my money situation a refund would be best for now and I could maybe try again next year.

Thank you for being so accommodating and helpful.

Laurie Hyatt
[PERSONAL CONTACT REMOVED]



-----Original Message-----
From: jeff jones [mailto:z3zoo@mtco.com]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:43 PM
To: Laurie Hyatt
Subject: Re: indigos

Hi,


Sorry, about the delay. I have received both of your checks and would agree the snake is paid in full. I didn't cash the first check do to the fact that your snake has managed to pop the lid off his container and is free in my house. I figured he would turn up by now. I have had them get out before and usually within a week or two they show up. I keep all my adults in the barn in vision cages but the babies my wife lets me keep inside to make sure they get weekly feedings and to keep a closer eye on them. They are all housed in plastic sweater boxes and he is the last one I had left. I am sorry to bare such news. I didn't feel comfortable cashing either of the checks you sent yet just because I didn't have the snake ready to ship. He is eating great and is well fed and very hardy I am sure he's fine. I can either give this more time, or do a full refund or worse case scenario replace him in 2008.
Let me know what you would like done. We planned to take the kids to see the BEE movie tomorrow and will be out during the day, but I will reply tomorrow evening.
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Laurie Hyatt" <contact@heavenly-gifts.com>
To: <z3zoo@mtco.com>
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: indigos


>
> Hello Jeff,
>
> I sent the final check a couple of weeks ago and haven't heard
> anything yet. I also haven't seen the checks come through my bank
> account yet. Please let me know if there is a problem.
>
> Laurie Hyatt

[heart4herps]

So if you've taken the time to go through all of this, do you think I have a good case? Should I post this in the Board of Inquiry on faunaclassifieds? Do you see anything anywhere about a deposit rerfund policy? And do you see a problem anywhere in Jeff's responses with my time extension requests? Do I deserve my refund back?

[prism_wolf]

You have a valid case. You should most CERTAINLY post this in the fauna classifieds - but when you do - remove any personal contact information. It was already done for you here. Posting personal information could not only get you into trouble, but the forum it is posted on could get into trouble, too... ;).

[MrsWTownsend]

Agreeing with Veronica~ You have in writing that the snake was lost and he asked you what option you would like regarding monies paid in advance. If you have copies of your checks that have been cashed and processed you can prove the dollar amount owed you, as well.

The other things this guy brought up in his response (to me) don't really hold any valid rank in order of importance, since he agreed, in writing, any time the plan deviated from the existing agreement.

I don't know whether this guy is a reputable breeder or not, if this is a special circumstance or not. The bottom line is, you have, in writing, "Hey I lost the snake- do you want to wait or get a refund" and you responded, in writing. I would think that would be your winning argument.

[heart4herps]

You have a valid case. You should most CERTAINLY post this in the fauna classifieds - but when you do - remove any personal contact information. It was already done for you here. Posting personal information could not only get you into trouble, but the forum it is posted on could get into trouble, too... ;).


Oops sorry and thanks!!!

And yes I do have the $500 check that he cashed.

[heart4herps]

http://www.heavenly-gifts.com/images/jjcheck2.jpg

http://www.heavenly-gifts.com/images/jjcheck.jpg

Okay I just posted this in the BOI on Faunaclassified. Man I hate confrontation - I'm shaking right now. Y'know I'd just as soon let this go instead of making a big fuss but $500 plus the $100 for the permit is just too much to ignore. Thank you all so much for your support...it means so much to me!!!

[prism_wolf]

We're behind you Hun! Just keep pushing!

[heart4herps]

Thank you!!!

I got a reply on the fauna board already!

OK. He stated full refund so he needs to send you a FULL refund. That $500 is yours not his. He lost the snake that deposit was on so he needs to refund it. He blew the deal, not you. There is no excuse for not sending that back immediately.

[MrsWTownsend]

In my opinion, if he only owes you $5 you're still entitled to it. You work just as hard for your money as anybody else does, regardless of the dollar amount! I wish it was $5 instead of $600 for your sake; that's a pretty big dent in the old pocket book.

[heart4herps]

You guys are so great!!! I'll say it again and again...I'm so glad I found this place! Thank you!!!

[heart4herps]

An interesting development on Faunaclassifieds.com. Another person has come forward to say she was ripped off by Jeff. And apparently she's not the only other one...

[c1rc4]

Have you taken any other actions to getting your money back, such as the police, or such?

[heart4herps]

My next step is contacting the attorney general in his state. I had really hoped it wouldn't come to this... I contacted this other person on faunaclassifieds and we may try to do this together and maybe even try to find these other people that got ripped off. Who knows, maybe we'll find enough people to do a class action lawsuit!

[c1rc4]

I wouldn't wait too much longer, I'd attempt to contact them now, as who knows if you will get ahold of someone/get a response back right away. Might as well attempt to contact them, and if you get through, mention that you spoke with someone else who is having problems but are unsure if they will be willing to go with you right now. Better to start it sooner rather than later.

[prism_wolf]

I agree. Get this moving now. The longer you wait the less chance there is of justice being done - whether you get your money back or not - whether he loses his license or not - at least a report will have been filed which will follow him forever. If another suit is filed against him the record will be something to compare and add to making the next case even stronger.

[snakewrangler]

I read the other person's response to Laurie's thread. If the two of you get together, you'll have a solid case. So many creeps in this hobby...

[heart4herps]

It's really such a shame! There's no need to do this sort of thing, especially with Indigos!!! Those snakes are so valuable that you can pretty much ask what you want and get it. Why would anybody risk their reputation like this...?! This whole experience has made me a lot more cautious. What a PITA!

[Tokays_Unlimited]

My guess is the bastard doesnt even breed them.May have a couple and thats about it!!!!
Well i wish you the best of luck,and since you have the permit.If you plan on still getting one.Let me know and i can send you to the guy i got mine from!@

[c1rc4]

Have any updates on what is going on?

[heart4herps]

Nothing yet. I'm waiting to hear from the attorney general of his state. I sent an email through their website but so far nothing. Unfortunately being a single working mom I don't have a lot of time to devote to this and it's made so much harder with his being so far out of state - across the country! :(

I'd be very interested in contacting your indigo breeder!

If you plan on still getting one.Let me know and i can send you to the guy i got mine from